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They are constructing something for the secret weapons in the hills there; that’s where the new weapons are being produced. These people were employed for that purpose. I once saw them marching by. Those starving creatures in the SOVIET UNION are well fed by comparison. I spoke to someone who was supervising there. They were working inside a chain of sentries, working at a terrific pace, without a break, for twelve hours without stopping—then a twelve hours rest, but there was really no question of rest. They only had about five hours sleep in twenty-four hours. They were prisoners; they wore black caps. They were dashing about among them with clubs this size; they hit them over the head or on the back. They collapsed.

KRUSE: Dry up, old man!

TAUMBERGER: Don’t you believe me? I can give you my word of honour that I saw it myself—they were… prisoners who beat each other up in that way. The supervisors with black caps got cigarettes. They also received full rations and money, paper money. They never got silver money. They were able to buy some extras with that. In this way they were kept up to the mark; they received bonuses. Each foreman was in charge of about forty or fifty prisoners. They were employed by firms; that’s to say they were working for certain firms. The more work that was done, the more piece-work, the more bonuses those Judases got. They therefore beat them up to make them work more. The pipes for the turbine-installations for the reservoir and the hydro-electric plant were fitted there. The supervisor and the bookkeeper had an agreement, stating that three pipes were to be built in daily. For that the supervisor received a certain bonus amount. He received still more money himself if, in two days time, he managed to get one pipe more than was agreed upon built in. I stopped there for about forty-eight hours before continuing my journey, I saw it all on that occasion.²⁴¹

^{A streetcar traveling through the Warsaw ghetto in 1941. (Photographer: Joe J. Heydecker; Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin)}

Taumberger’s description of the labor camp is basically historically accurate. Kruse’s incredulity is apparently directed at the detail that inmates were used as guards, although that is open to interpretation. He could have been expressing doubt at the entire story or the role of the capos, or he might simply have not wanted to hear anything, although Taumberger responds by going into more detail about the capos. Strikingly, he stresses his own moral contempt for people he considers “Judases”—as though they were acting entirely of their own free will.